The Ocean Devil OOC

Subject: The Ocean Devil OOC Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:20 pm

That thread is getting cluttered and held back with OOC.

Psi Prince wrote:: On the other note, a "query" would have asked "Are we not rolling since you didn't roll?" not "I guess we're not rolling since you auto'd you your shield."

My words were actually: "Ooc: Psi, I’m guessing we don’t have to roll our techs here since you auto’d your shield?" The fact that you edited my words to make it a statement rather than the question it was negates your point.

As far as Sanzon blocking: "Guarding is performed when you willfully brace yourself for an attack (i.e. crossing your arms, etc). This enables your Defense attribute to fully buffer an attack." His guard is valid if he performed that.
http://h2h.site90.com/breakdown.html
* Reading is fundamental.

I didn't block the attack, I countered the attack with a physical attack. Yes my stats would have to be and are strong in order to do that.

Before I forget, Ash, I don't believe Sanzo could come into the barrier without getting shot by the automated systems. You were freed outside of the Metro, they never stated you could come back in without being escorted. When we escorted you out, your magic abilities were bound so that you would not be targeted by the Metro's defenses. Shin advised my actions there.

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:08 am

This is probably going to single me out as the target but I'm not standing for this bullshit anymore.

Despite how big this thing is the only direct ability it has is Water spells at perfected. Not Casting. This thing cast 4 spells in 1 turn. Drowning cycle(against 3 different people at once as I highly doubt that we're all within the area of attack of one.

Then to top it off it's manipulating an attack spell as if it were golems. While the spell can be manipulated it does not get to attack multiple targets or have a set amount of HP. If I'm wrong about this, SHIN, please correct me. The manipulation of this spell, in my understanding, is the ability to will it around attacks or around things to attack a particular target.

So pick either to cast the Water Dragon spell or one of us to cast Drowning Cycle on. Otherwise I refuse to acknowledge the Drowning cycles. You are making this thing powerful, that's fine. But you're blatantly breaking the rules. Without Casting Queue this thing cannot cast multiple spells at once.

Kyro, Jesse I'm sorry about this as you've posted since but I'm not accepting this.

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:25 am

Fight the power.

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:24 am

Let's take this by the numbers...

Blocking: He said he blocked, so I didn't dispute that, but the whole thing about area effect spells is that you can't block them by putting your hands in front of you. Otherwise, a nuke could be dropped right next to you and just because you put your hands in front of your face, the WHOLE REST of your body is safe too? That makes no sense and people brought that up to Shin and I don't remember seeing Shin change and say "Putting your hands up negates area effect spells/techs... otherwise, I know EXACTLY how I'm defending against that damn WAMD thing if it comes back out.

Evasion: After talking to Kyro, his interpretation makes sense, so I'll go with that and Sanzon evades "out the top".

Kyro: Ok. Next time, it might be best to let it be known that you're in Onihume form, since you're not a kami like Sanzon, there's no way to be sure. Thanks for letting me know tho.

Ocean Devil: Wow... this has been bothering you, I presume... Let's break this down too then...
1) OD's base stats are Ascended = Superman = +2 CATEGORIES of yours/mine and +1 of Domen and Sanzo
2) OD was declared a Yokai = does not need to chant
3) Was badly wounded = >50% = Supreme stats (so +1 more to Point 1)
4) Shin has already ruled that there is no limit to the number of attacks that someone can attempt within one turn, but that it leaves someone open for an interrupt.

So, putting this all together: Adv Yokai with Supreme stats at the time of the casting... that alone means that at the close range that you're at, I could have been killed you multiple times, but that's not as fun. I've held back with thing a lot and kept the damn thing to the limit of water abilities only... the whole reason, I've only used like 3 abilities. Furthermore, a yokai can blink three times and that would be the equivalent of casting 3 spells. They don't have to chant (site rule). In terms of the HP, I'm not giving it HP, the reason I used the fire attack is b/c it's strong and strong atk + strong atk > Fierce dmg. A single strong attack won't overpower a perfected fierce attack so that is why I set it up like that.

The range of dragon is 50 YARDS, so if it swings its tail and let's say that it's 15-20 yards, you're gonna get hit since you might be what, MAYBE 10 yards away and slower than the attack. I don't see your argument, dude.

Next, where does it specify HOW Water Dragon attacks?

Quote :: Watyrdragon
TEXP: 7
The user clasps their hands together and creates a large snakelike dragon of waters. The water dragon will appear within melee range of the caster, but can grow in size and length and be manipulated to attack a target.
Effect: damage is Fierce, range = 10 yds per level.

Don't worry, I'll wait... It doesn't, so to make things fun, I gave OD a brief break to make the characters wonder how he was able to heal so quickly, so that we could justify the ability that we are to gain. Also, the dragon and you and Sanzo being "wounded" lays the excuse to draw Domen and Psyre into the fray since they've been observing this whole time. I don't know what you expected, but the monster was built stat-heavy, ability-light, so that's how I'm moderating it. I haven't given the thing any other packages, which would make sense b/c a one package quest monster is dumb.

If Shin feels that I have moderated an ascended-stat, adv yokai too "hard" then I will tone it down further and it will be dead in the next couple of posts. Like I said, if I unleashed what the Ocean Devil is capable of, you would have been dead b/c you can't fly, so trying to slash at it would not have worked. We can wait for Shin if you like.

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:37 pm

Psi Prince wrote:

Let's take this by the numbers...

Blocking: He said he blocked, so I didn't dispute that, but the whole thing about area effect spells is that you can't block them by putting your hands in front of you. Otherwise, a nuke could be dropped right next to you and just because you put your hands in front of your face, the WHOLE REST of your body is safe too? That makes no sense and people brought that up to Shin and I don't remember seeing Shin change and say "Putting your hands up negates area effect spells/techs... otherwise, I know EXACTLY how I'm defending against that damn WAMD thing if it comes back out.

kyro wrote:: "Guarding is performed when you willfully brace yourself for an attack (i.e. crossing your arms, etc). This enables your Defense attribute to fully buffer an attack." His guard is valid if he performed that.
http://h2h.site90.com/breakdown.html

if you brace yourself for an attack you get to use your def attribute. he braced himself, he uses his def attribute. i dunno what that other stuff you're talkin bout is. it dun negate anything, it lets you use ur natural defense. i support you tryin to block the wamd xD

Ocean Devil: Wow... this has been bothering you, I presume... Let's break this down too then...
1) OD's base stats are Ascended = Superman = +2 CATEGORIES of yours/mine and +1 of Domen and Sanzo
2) OD was declared a Yokai = does not need to chant
3) Was badly wounded = >50% = Supreme stats (so +1 more to Point 1)
4) Shin has already ruled that there is no limit to the number of attacks that someone can attempt within one turn, but that it leaves someone open for an interrupt.

ya, he got a point. that thing is fast as all hell. it's prob low on stamina tho, so that's good for yall xD weren't yall coming up w/some group attack thingee i'm supposed to be approving? that'd be a good thing here. who the hell gave this thing supreme stats?! that's just looney! xD

Next, where does it specify HOW Water Dragon attacks?

Quote :: Watyrdragon
TEXP: 7
The user clasps their hands together and creates a large snakelike dragon of waters. The water dragon will appear within melee range of the caster, but can grow in size and length and be manipulated to attack a target.
Effect: damage is Fierce, range = 10 yds per level.

he doesn't have hands! hahaha noob! ... is should make this last a certain # of posts now that i look at it. someone put that on the admin rev board.

If Shin feels that I have moderated an ascended-stat, adv yokai too "hard" then I will tone it down further and it will be dead in the next couple of posts. Like I said, if I unleashed what the Ocean Devil is capable of, you would have been dead b/c you can't fly, so trying to slash at it would not have worked. We can wait for Shin if you like.

okay. the purpose of a quest is to give a challenge, not make ppl not want to RP anymore. you gave a challenge. wrap this up. i think it's adrian's quest and he let you moderate. dun make him never want you to moderate again. be nice and come out a good storyline compromise instead of getting into "IMA KILL YO ASS" mode xD

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:59 pm

wow.. this has gone into a slugfest.. nice..

I mean.. cough cough.. I was using what I interpreted directly from the breakdown page. I defended, meaning my defense value for my body would be at full. I guess that has been reconfirmed.

I am not gonna float up there and recover.

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:05 pm

One correction, Shin: this quest is everyone's since it says that as many people as they want can join and I posted joining right after you replied. The "open nature" is why we never rolled.

Supreme stats: You did! Razz

It's on the quest page that when OD drops under 50% HP, it's stats go to Supreme. I didn't know what you were thinking, but I figured, it wouldn't be an issue if everyone attacked it at once! ^_^

For the sake of not having to move this question to another thread... so what exactly is the ruling for calculating damage involving area effect spells? If a block wide (other area distance) attack goes off and the character is within the attack range and raises their hands? Does getting to use defense mean that they lessen damage even to areas they're not defending like their back, torso, legs, etc? If it does, that seriously hinders the usefulness of area attacks if everyone can just post putting their hands in front of their face like peek-a-boo and viola your fierce level area attack that dents walls and tears up stuff just got reduced to basically Average. Not gonna argue it, just want a solid answer for future reference.

Ash: No worries, man. I read it, but then remembered the question and Kyro wasn't being helpful when I asked for his input as he was claiming that he was watching anime.

Adrian: I hope you didn't take any of that personal or anything. Got nothing against you, man. I was just shocked that you complained about that, but I can see where you could have been confused.

When I get to campus in a few hours, I'll post to keep things moving. Now to get back to work. Thanks for the call, Shin.

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:35 pm

Psi Prince wrote:: For the sake of not having to move this question to another thread... so what exactly is the ruling for calculating damage involving area effect spells? (God damn you're dumb). If a block wide (other area distance) attack goes off and the character is within the attack range and raises their hands? (That's what we've been saying.) Does getting to use defense mean that they lessen damage even to areas they're not defending like their back, torso, legs, etc? (That's what we've been saying.) If it does, that seriously hinders the usefulness of area attacks if everyone can just post putting their hands in front of their face like peek-a-boo and viola your fierce level area attack that dents walls and tears up stuff just got reduced to basically Average. (That's because demons tend to have strong defenses genius.) Not gonna argue it, just want a solid answer for future reference. (You got 3 already: Me, Shin, Ash).

Are you being dumb on purpose? I knew you were from the valley, but good lord. I cannot fathom your intellect to be that low when both I AND Shin have already confirmed the answered this question. For simplicity's sake, I will answer "he gets to use his defense" along with my edits above; but I will continue further because it seems you have a learning disability.

H2H phase 1 - Everyone had a defense stat that buffered damage based on their attributes. I'll use the broken record melody of Retarded Donkey, to illustrate.

A demon with strong defense gets hit by an area attack. That demon's natural defense buffer the attack as a strong rating (LIKE ARMOR YOU IDIOT) and he takes the rest of the damage.

H2H phase 2 - Defense was made non passive, meaning you had to be knowledgeable of an attack in order for your defense to count.

A demon with strong defense gets hit by an area attack. If that demon didn't see it coming and didn't brace himself for it, then that demon takes the full damage as if he has NO defense attribute. If he DOES see and prepare for the attack, it invokes his natural defense.

Blocking is not a technique, it allows you to use your body's natural defense that we used to be able to use regardless before it was altered. If a BODY has defense, the blocking is only a way to prepare the BODY (not the pinky toe, arms, legs, buttock, etc). I do not know of a simpler way to put it. Seven year old children could understand this concept. It's not like you double your blocking power when you cross your arms. No, the only thing that happens is that the defense your body has is applied to the damage you take. If you don't want the person to be able to use their defense attribute, then ambush them.

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:15 pm

Kaz, I didn't take anything personal, I just didn't like the fact that this thing seemed way overpowered. But a challenge is a challenge, and you certainly did that.

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:57 am

I saw the first post in the thread.

When Shin explained the things to me, since I will eventually be assisting you on a full time basis, he said it would allow me to enter the metro as a registered spirit. Since the systems know it is me and I cant harm humans, there isnt a reason for it to register me as an enemy right now

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:04 am

That's not what I was told. Furthermore, if it's not posted on the site, it doesn't exist. If you can't copy and paste that it was said, it wasn't. Registered or not, I don't think they'd input you into a "don't kill" list for the Metro's defenses as a spirit. Neither the RP nor the order given to Jyn state that you have safety in the city. You might want to double check that.

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:09 am

that was part of the reasoning why I agreed to it instead of an attempt to get busted out. With that system I would be able to assist the division on a business level as needed. It doesnt make sense for them to agree to have me help them but not give me the means to do so.

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:08 pm

glad yall worked things out! play nice!

@ash - nah, i dun remember sayin nothin bout the metro. other stuff ya. the pm was

me! wrote:: yo, i'm thinkin of having div12 tell kyro he's gotta let you go.
there's a catch of course, they'll want you to help them and help protect humans, etc
there a lil minor detail not worth mentionin (bout nanites bein injected in u or somethin or other so they can stop u if you go blowin ish up xD), but forget that.. like i said SMALL SMALL detail >.>
you'll be able to eventually expel the nanites, etc after like a month or so
sound like an ok storyline for u?

it's my bad tho. i broke a site rule and shouldn't have discussed this in pm, so i apologize to the both of ya. even i make mistakes! lol xD i looked thro the other 2 posts we did in pm and didn't see anythin bout the city. if you find somethin let me kno tho.

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:58 pm

Wtf. Isn't there a rule about doing IC things for OOC reasons? It's hilarious that someone would think "I was only doing this because the mod said this would happen" is used as an excuse for being wrong, but still, I suppose I was wrong about you being able to make interesting storyline decisions for the sake of roleplaying. Planning on cutting any more deals anytime soon? Can I fly if I cut a deal with my character?

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:44 am

Quit crying, master, my master. Shin had already explained where things weren't making sense to me. His logic makes sense, that the act of how they block isn't important, just that they brace themselves. As I told him, it still brings up an issue for me b/c people keep letting the ability trigger first and THEN block/guard/overpower w/e and I don't see anywhere on the site that attack spells build up in strength after they are triggered, but I'm sure in all your brilliance, that makes sense to you.

P.S. Our school system is WAAAAY better up here than yours.

@Adrian: Umm... your shield is Ascended (as I am assuming it comes into play after the Drowning Cycle since Shin did not negate the attack due to the stat difference between OD and the rest of us), the dragon's damage is Fierce... 4 vs 4 = 0... your shield should be gone. Issue #2, Adrian is on his back. I had to go back and read twice, so unless I'm going blind, he falls to the ground hurt, then looks up and casts Shield... so how exactly are you prepared for this attack? Furthermore, the strike is a sweeping one, Shield only protects in front of you... the reason I took damage to the back of my armor during Drowning Cycle, so the shield would not have protected you anyway. I dun want to drag this out further, so I'm posting regardless. Just figured that that is something you might want to take note of and correct for the future.

You see... unlike The Mad Hater, I like to be positive with people and help, not spaz and be negative. king

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:54 pm

Um No. Adrian isn't on his back and he didn't hit GROUND. He landed in water, so he's floating. And sweeping or not you didn't specify if it was coming from in front or behind. So I assumed it was coming from in front. As such it would strike his shield, not him. I'll accept the drowning cycle damage. But I'm not taking any damage from the water dragon. You can look up from a vertical position you know. The neck does bend backwards. And I don't see anywhere where I specified Adrian was on his back.

It might have taken the shield down but my understanding was to break a shield you must deal more damage than it can absorb. I.E. Fierce vs Fierce = shield still up, where as Fierce vs. Destructive = damage and broken shield. If I'm wrong, Shin, please correct me because this has been my understanding this entire time.

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:18 pm

Floating = on you back
Wading = what you claim you are doing, but never posted doing

4 - 4 = 0 = nothing = not there = gone = no shield...

Sweeping by its essence does NOT mean straight forward attack. When you sweep a floor, you use the side of the broom. When you do a sweep kick, you strike from the side or behind to take the legs out of from under someone. When it's done from the front, it's called a trip.

Furthermore, since I said that he struck the first one and used the momentum to keep the strike going to strike you and the other golem as well, that too should tell you that it was not a frontal attack. The fact that Domen got an open shot because it wasn't facing him should have told you that well. So seriously, EVERYTHING I wrote using common sense tells you that a sweep is not a frontal attack.

Here's a nice idea b/c I really just want this quest to be over so I can go get a pet. Just contend with keeping yourself from drowning since you justify that the tail brought a wave that dragged you under the water before the tail arrived and you won't have break your shield or anything of that. By the time you resurface, this will all be over... provided Sanzon and/or Domen attacks. Peaceful solution to things.

Subject: Re: The Ocean Devil OOC Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:18 pm

yall still goin on about this?
ya, if you get hit w/a +4 attack and you got a +4 shield, the shield breaks
the shield user takes no damage
if your def is +4 and you get his with a +4 attack, that's when u take dmg

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